Podcast – Morgan Daniel kick-starting a 12 month MSc Journey

Voice Over:

Welcome to the NIHR Dementia Researcher podcast, brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk. In association with Alzheimer’s Research U.K. and Alzheimer’s Society, supporting early career dementia researchers across the world.

Adam Smith:

Hello, and thank you for listening to the Dementia Researcher podcast. I’m Adam Smith, and today I’m joined by Morgan Daniel. Morgan is about to start a Dementia and Neuroscience MSc at University College London, and over the next year we’re going to follow her to capture her story.

Adam Smith:

We hope that through this partnership we’ll inspire others to follow the same path, and help early career researchers to understand that they’re not alone in the highs and lows that they face during the early stages of your careers and while studying MSc’s.

Adam Smith:

Morgan is going to write regular blogs for us, and join us for some podcasts over the coming 12 months. So, in this first podcast, I just wanted to introduce you all to Morgan so you can get to know her a little bit better. Hello, Morgan.

Morgan Daniel:

Hi.

Adam Smith:

It’s all a little bit strange, isn’t it? Because usually, of course, we’d be sat opposite at table from each other and be in the studio at UCL. We’re doing this over Zoom, so these always feel more like meetings than podcasts.

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. I think it feels more like an interview, rather than a chat, I suppose.

Adam Smith:

Yeah. Do you want this job?

Morgan Daniel:

Exactly.

Adam Smith:

Just to give everybody a little bit of background, Morgan and I and Dementia Researcher, we met over social media, just to make another argument for the power of social media for good sometimes. In talking, we learned that Morgan was going to be coming down to London, and so we got together and had a chat, and Morgan has really kindly agreed to work with us over the coming year. Because I think one of the aims for Dementia Researcher, all along, has been to try and inspire and encourage undergraduates to consider dementia research as a career option.

Adam Smith:

We hope to be doing more of that in the next year, so this seemed like a great opportunity. Not only to perhaps inspire others, but also to really get a chance to work through all the issues of this, because of course this isn’t just about studying and meeting that endpoint. There’s lots of story along the way that we want to capture, to help others that are going through the same. So, Morgan, maybe … Could we start by just asking you to tell us a little bit about yourself?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. My name is Morgan Daniel. I’m from Loch Lomond, just outside of Glasgow. For my undergraduate, I studied at University of Glasgow. I did a Bachelor of Science in psychology and neuroscience, so I did a joint honors degree. Yeah. I moved to London recently, only about two weeks ago, and am still settling in.

Morgan Daniel:

Some of my hobbies and stuff when I was in Scotland were things like, I’d spend a lot of my time reading. I quite like reading about science and politics, and I recently took up running. I think everyone took up running during lockdown, but I took up running before lockdown. It was a hobby that I started about a year ago, so that’s something that I tried to bring back down to London with me, as well. I’m trying to explore London through running right now.

Adam Smith:

Actually, I’m going to pick up on that first of all: how you found that move to London. Because that’s one of the first things that, I guess, you’ll have faced. We’ll come back in a minute to how you found the course in the first place, and how you went through that. But how have you found the move to London?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. It’s actually been a lot smoother than I expected, really. London’s obviously quite different to Glasgow. It’s a massive city, and it’s a very different sort of … Like, even the population size. I’m pretty sure London’s population is larger than Scotland’s in total, and so it was a bit intimidating.

Morgan Daniel:

But I actually found moving here that you realize that you do end up in a little community, no matter where you’re living. It’s not as if the setting is totally overwhelming once you’re here. I’m living in Bloomsbury, and it’s a lovely area. I’ve also moved into student halls, so I’ve had the option to meet a good group of people and they’re very similar to myself. I’m getting along really well with them, so I’ve actually made a good group of friends so far and we’ve been able to spend a lot of time together outside of halls, and working, and things like that.

Morgan Daniel:

So, I found it okay. My mom helped me move, so that was nice. I got to spend last weekend with my mom helping me move before she I shipped her back up to Scotland. Yeah. Actually, I think it was more really kind of an overwhelming sort of thought. I was dreading it a little bit, but once I was actually here, I felt quite settled. It’s been something I’ve been planning for years, so I think to finally be here I’m quite relieved, just relieved that I’ve actually managed to make it happen. And I’m looking forward, now, to the rest of the year that I’ve got ahead of me.

Adam Smith:

Of course, you have the additional challenge that most other people won’t have faced in years gone by, or hopefully in future years, of the coronavirus: the issues around restrictions on movement ,and what it’s like to be on campus during coronavirus. I mean, some campuses aren’t even open at all, right?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:05:42].

Adam Smith:

So, how has that differed?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. Bloomsbury in London is very, very quiet. I walked to Covent Garden last weekend, or the weekend before. It was on a Sunday morning, but I met, probably, just a handful of other people on their way past. It’s so quiet.

Morgan Daniel:

Actually, moving during lockdown, I found it … It was quite difficult because I had to know about, obviously, restrictions of traveling and how I wanted to travel. There was also concern that the border might close between Scotland and England at one point, and whether or not my mom would be able to come down and help me, because she might not be able to get back up.

Morgan Daniel:

So, there were a few concerns, but I got the train, took the train down, and went four-and-a-half, five hours, and it was absolutely fine. Obviously, you have to wear masks, but it meant that you got at least two seats to yourself.

Adam Smith:

That’s good.

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. The train is actually … It was a lot more pleasant an experience than it usually is, other than having to wear the mask. So, I’ve actually found it okay, but I think I’m looking forward to when it’s a little bit busier around my area, because it just feels a bit deserted right now, I think.

Adam Smith:

Do you have to wear masks around campus, or in any of the buildings?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. On campus, we’re going to have to wear masks, I think, most of the time. I think there’s a lot of one-way systems in place. I do have some contact areas on my course, I think, coming up, sort of like one or two hours a week, so I think we will have to wear masks for those sort of things.

Morgan Daniel:

In student halls you have to wear masks pretty much all of the time, except for when you’re in your room or eating. So, it’s getting used to wearing a mask when you leave your room, just to go down to the bathroom or the canteen, and that sort of thing. But to be honest, after a couple of days I got used to it and it doesn’t faze me anymore. It’s just like something that you’d pick up when you run out the door, like your house keys or your purse, that sort of thing.

Morgan Daniel:

So, I’m getting used to it, but, yeah. It’s a very strange experience [inaudible 00:07:36], and it’s just not what you’d expect, I suppose.

Adam Smith:

Well, one hopes that by the time you’ve finished your course, the situation might have improved. Tell us what’s the course you’re doing. Tell us about your course.

Morgan Daniel:

I’m doing a course. It’s a Master of Science in [inaudible 00:07:53] Dementia: so, it’s causes, treatments and research. I’m doing the neuroscience pathway. There’s two different pathways: you can either focus on neuroscience or mental health, and I’ve chosen the neuroscience route.

Morgan Daniel:

There’s a lot of different modules. Some of it focuses on the biological side of dementia and the research side, but there’s also a lot of optional courses that give you a bit of variety in what you’re studying. So, I’m also choosing to study advanced imaging, so brain imaging. It’s just something that I felt would kind of upskill me when I came out with my master’s, so that once I come out [inaudible 00:08:32] opportunities. So, I’m doing a course in advanced imaging.

Morgan Daniel:

We’re also doing courses in the treatment and management of dementia. There’s aspects of the course that are involved in working in the hospital, so I’m not sure how that’s going to work with COVID this year. Usually, you do kind of like a placement, and that’s learning how to work with people who have dementia, how to maybe work in the diagnosis and assessment side of things, as well.

Morgan Daniel:

So, it’s very varied, but I think it encompasses what a lot of people will want to study when they’re interested in dementia. You get a very wide variety of options, and I do think it covers a lot of good areas. I think that coming out with a master’s, the skills that you’ll gain and the knowledge that you’ll have means that you’re able to apply it: so, a lot more job opportunities, PhD’s, that sort of thing.

Morgan Daniel:

So, yeah. I’m looking forward to getting started, but I think I’m doing about seven or eight modules, and then you do your dissertation project at the end of the year, as well.

Adam Smith:

That is a really good stepping stone, I think, between undergraduate science, or a psychology degree that somebody might have done at university, before you consider a PhD. I think it also allows you to decide if a PhD is the right thing for you or not, just because a PhD is a big undertaking. Doing that extra year after the back of your three-year undergraduate degree, and then doing this extra year of an MSc … It is 12 months, right?

Morgan Daniel:

It’s 12 months, yeah. Personally, I know I have friends that felt they were ready for a PhD, and they went straight into a PhD. I, personally, did not feel ready. I didn’t think that I had really narrowed down my interests enough to apply straight for a PhD, and also just I needed that kind of stepping stone.

Morgan Daniel:

I don’t think I’ve spent enough time in labs or in research environments yet, so I kind of felt like this was a really good stepping stone to help me narrow down my interests and what I’d like to focus on for a PhD. It also just gave me a really broad look at what’s going on, really, in dementia research right now. I think being at UCL is an unbelievable opportunity to decide where I want to go after this, because you’re learning from world leaders. I just think that the master’s is a really great ladder up to a PhD after this.

Adam Smith:

Absolutely. Was this course, this same course … I mean, you were in Scotland. Did you deliberately want to move away from Scotland down to UCL, or was this course what particularly attracted you? Because, of course, there are other MSc courses around the country. We talked to some people last year that run the one at Bradford. I know there’s a great one at Swansea, as well.

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. I think when I was looking at master’s degrees, I knew that I wanted to do a master’s degree that would lead to dementia [inaudible 00:11:27]. A lot of the degrees I was finding were pretty much just focusing on neuroscience, and then you could choose to specialize.

Morgan Daniel:

But when I found this degree, and realized that all the modules were so specific to my interests, the sort of training that you would get, the clinical opportunities, I think that’s what attracted me to having to move. I actually was quite reluctant to move from Scotland, but I think the idea of being at UCL, which is world-leading in dementia and neuroscience research, and then finding this course that was so specific, that it kind of convinced me that the move was definitely worth it.

Adam Smith:

Yeah. I’d agree. I work at UCL. But I was slightly concerned that our podcast feels like a bit of an advertisement for UCL, because we … and it isn’t at all. I mean, we just happen to produce this out of there, but the people that work at UCL are just so phenomenal at volunteering to come in and contribute to podcasts, and blogs, and other things as well.

Morgan Daniel:

I think when I was looking at master’s degrees, there were some in Scotland. There were some in other cities, like Manchester and stuff like that. But there was also a certain amount of options in Wales, I think, places like Cardiff and Swansea. But it was really just about narrowing down the fact that this course was the modules I wanted to study, and it felt like it had been tailor-made. So, yeah. I did look across the U.K., but I ended up in London.

Adam Smith:

I guess the advice for anybody listening is, whilst the UCL MSc looks good, other MSc’s are available. Do shop around and find the one that suits you, because there are lots all over the country. I think some of them are nuanced more towards the psychology side of things, or to neuroscience, or different aspects. So, do shop around and have a look. How do the fees work, Morgan? Do you have to … Are the fees more expensive in England than Scotland?

Morgan Daniel:

I’ve actually found the fees in England and Scotland, there’s not a massive amount of difference once you get to a postgraduate level. If you’re Scottish, then you don’t … Basically, your loan that you get from the Scottish government won’t cover your fees in Scotland, anyway, so I think it encourages a lot of us to look elsewhere and just see what options there are.

Morgan Daniel:

But I’d say that there’s probably … the difference can be around about a couple of thousand pounds. That being said, some of the courses in Scotland are extortionate as well, so some of them are more expensive than the one that I’m paying for. You really just need to look and weigh up whether or not you think the fees are worth spending on the course.

Adam Smith:

So, what does it cost? What does an MSc, 12-month course, cost?

Morgan Daniel:

This one’s costing me around £10,000.00.

Adam Smith:

£10,000.00. And then you’ve got accommodation, and you’ve got your life expenses. You’ve got books and beer and-

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. Books and beer, exactly.

Adam Smith:

So, the course fees you can get a loan for, which you have to pay back, but of course the fees are still there, as well. That’s good, because I think anybody who’s listening might not really have an idea about the cost of doing this.

Morgan Daniel:

I think, for myself, the course [inaudible 00:14:52], it was going to cost me around £8000.00-£9000.00, and it wasn’t a course that I would have jumped at. It was an option because I was sort of using it as a backup. It was a great course, but it just wasn’t necessarily my interests, and it was going to cost me about £1000.00 less than this one. I thought it was well worth paying the extra money to get the course that I actually want, because I kind of had to look at it as an investment, I guess. Like, it is taking out a loan, but it’s more of an investment in the future, because of the opportunities I could get with a master’s degree.

Adam Smith:

Absolutely.

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. Things like, when you’re looking at different cities, it’s obviously worth weighing up how much you’re going to have to pay in accommodation fees. Is the food more expensive? And social life, is that going to be a little bit more expensive, as well? So, it’s just about weighing up the balance and seeing what you have available to you, I guess, and then whether or not you think it’s worth it, because I think it depends where you’re from in the U.K. and what loans you’ve got available to you. Things like that. But I would definitely say, don’t be scared of taking out the loan to do the master’s if it’s what you want to do, because it is an investment in your future.

Adam Smith:

And obviously, to meet those other costs that we talked about there, are you having to work as well, or are you okay?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. I’m having to work. Unfortunately, I don’t get very much money through the Scottish government, so I am working as a resident advisor. Homes in the University of London have intercollegiate halls, which means that there are students from King’s, from UCL, from LSE, from lots of universities across London, and they stay in these buildings. So, I’m working as a resident advisor, which means that I work alongside the warden in our hall in Bloomsbury, and one or two nights a week sometimes I’ll be on duty overnight, just on call, to see if anything happens and if anyone needs the help.

Morgan Daniel:

We got a lot of training for it, so we’re trained in mental health first aid and first aid through British Red Cross. We’re just there, basically, to support the students while they live here for the year, but it does mean that I get a massively reduced rent and food, so it’s made it really affordable. And, yeah. [inaudible 00:17:06].

Morgan Daniel:

It was like it all fell into place. It was like the best job, I think, that I could have really found for being at Uni, because you’re living and working in the same place. It means that when you’re on duty, you can get on with your work. You can sit and do your papers, your reading, and things like that. Obviously, if something happens and you’re on call you have to go down and deal with it, but the likelihood of that happening compared to how much spare time you actually have is a pretty good balance.

Adam Smith:

Well, I will be interested to see if you have the same view of that in six months’ time, because it’s definitely a job. I’ve had friends that have done this and some people have been great, where they’ve had lots of very sensible 18-year-old students kicking around halls who haven’t been too bad, and other ones that turned out to be party and drama central.

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. Which I do expect, but then I suppose we were all like that when we were younger, and I don’t mind. It will obviously get busier, but it’s also [inaudible 00:18:04] get a little bit strange because of COVID.

Adam Smith:

Well, I was going to say … That was the point I was going to make, whereas what might make a difference this year, of course, impacting on that particular job, is COVID. Because there will be those restrictions in place; and of course in England, as we record this today, it’s the ninth of September, and the group gatherings of six people or more have just been restricted again. So, perhaps outside of halls and some of those things will be affected.

Morgan Daniel:

It’s a new challenge that we’re facing with COVID, but I do think that it will make my experience in this job a little bit different. I don’t know whether it will make it easier, or whether there will be more demands in terms of planning and online sort of things, but I do think it will be a slightly different job to what other people have [crosstalk 00:18:47].

Adam Smith:

Well, an interesting skill set to develop, as well. Which is again, I think, something that will be helpful, compared to working in the bookshop or other things. I’m interested. At the start of the description I talked about highs and lows, so before we wrap up today I’ve got two more questions, the first of which is: what are you most excited and nervous about?

Morgan Daniel:

I think, for me, I’m just excited to get started. I’ve been looking at UCL. I identified this course in my second year of a four-year degree, so I’ve been wanting to study here for around two years. I’m excited just to get started, I think to meet the students and the staff, whether it’s online or in person [inaudible 00:19:34], and to actually get started with learning and my modules. I’m also excited to just be living in London, and meeting so many new people. There’s going to be about 200 people in my building, so meeting loads of new people should be good. [crosstalk 00:19:50].

Adam Smith:

What about nerves?

Morgan Daniel:

Nervous? Yeah, I guess. Coronavirus is a bit of a pressing issue. Yeah. I think with the new restrictions being brought in, that’s kind of … My only nerves is, you know, will that affect my course? Will it affect my dissertation and my research?

Adam Smith:

I suppose what you don’t want to find is, a situation changes and develops so rapidly, like it has, and then you find yourself stuck in accommodation or even having to return home.

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, exactly. That’s kind of the most pressing issue I think, right now, on all of our minds. Especially for master’s students who are doing their research at the end of the year. It’s really not that far away, and I don’t know how much [inaudible 00:20:32] at that point.

Morgan Daniel:

But other than that I guess, for myself, it’s online learning. I’m quite nervous about having to motivate myself, and I also find online learning very tiring. When I come off my laptop, I’m very tired compared to being in actual lectures, so I’m kind of nervous about that. But I’m hoping that I’ll settle into it and I’ll just get used to a routine eventually, once I do get started.

Adam Smith:

Have you found a nice little … Have you found your spot, yet? Your favourite place to do that? Your corner in the library, your [crosstalk 00:21:04]?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, well I think that’s one of the sort of things I’m excited about, actually, is that UCL are opening the libraries. I think you just have to book a spot. You have to book a table, which is ideal because I’m so used to being at the university library and not being able to find a table anywhere. They’re always so busy-

Adam Smith:

Well, that’s what happens when you arrive at lunchtime, instead of getting up in the morning and-

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, well-

Adam Smith:

I’m teasing.

Morgan Daniel:

Honestly, I became a morning person at Uni because the library was so busy. That’s what happened to me. So, yeah. I’m quite excited to be learning online, but it’s just that I think that will make it a bit easier. But I have found there are nice cafes nearby, if I want to sit for a coffee or that sort of thing. There are nice spaces, and I’ve tried to make my room a little bit more homely so that … I’ve also separated a little section of my room off as an office-type space, just because I need the separation between living and working, I think, for myself.

Adam Smith:

I can, of course, see your room because you’re recording from there today, but I see it looks like you have a very nice high floor. I’m going by the windows. So, have you got a good view?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah. I’ve got two windows in my room, so I’ve got the view of the park across the street, and then I’ve got a view of the … right down to Russell Square. So, I’m very lucky. It’s going to be quite, I think, a comfortable space for the next year. I think that’s obviously the benefit of doing this job, is that I got a great room for a very cheap price. So, I think-

Adam Smith:

And not looking out onto-

Morgan Daniel:

… considering I have to spend so much time here, it’s sort of a nice thing.

Adam Smith:

Well, I think getting the technology sorted out, getting a speedy connection, and having a nice computer always helps with that. I think it’s probably all we’ve got time for today, Morgan But honestly, what I really wanted to do in this first meeting, this first podcast, was really just to get to know you, to help all of our listeners to get to know you. It’s great to meet you. Good luck in your first week.

Adam Smith:

Anybody who is listening today can read Morgan’s first blog for us, which will be published on the website today. And then, do check back each month for monthly updates, because Morgan is going to write a blog for us each month. We’ll be talking to her again in a couple of months’ time, just to get the update on how things are going, and start to understand what it’s really like to study an MSc: how much work is involved, what you found easy and difficult, and the challenges you face, so we can share that with others.

Adam Smith:

Thank you very much. Morgan’s also on Twitter, so you can give her a Follow on Twitter. It’s @morgandaniel99, so do go and give her a Follow on Twitter, as well. Also, you’re a member of our WhatsApp online community.

Morgan Daniel:

I am.

Adam Smith:

You can find details on how to join that on our website under the Ask an Expert section in our website, with details on how to join in WhatsApp. Thank you very much for joining us, Morgan.

Morgan Daniel:

Thank you so much for having me.

Adam Smith:

Good luck with your blog. We’ll catch up with your blogs over the next couple of months. Thanks very much, everybody. Please remember to like, subscribe, and leave a review of our podcasts through the website. We’re on iTunes, Spotify, Podbean, SoundCloud, everywhere where you get your podcasts. You can now ask your smart home device to play the Dementia Researcher podcast, which is another way to listen. Thank you very much, everybody, and we’ll see you again in two weeks’ time.

Voice Over:

Brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk, in association with Alzheimer’s Research UK and Alzheimer’s Society. Supporting early career dementia researchers across the world.

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