Podcast – Clinical opportunity for Blood-based Biomarkers

Voice Over:

The Dementia Researcher Podcast, talking careers, research conference highlights, and so much more.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Welcome to the Dementia Researcher Podcast. In today's episode, we're going to dive into one of the most exciting areas, I think anyway, in dementia research at the moment, and that's the rise of blood-based biomarkers. Now, these tests are truly exciting, offering the promise of a faster, more accessible diagnosis. But with that comes the question, are we actually ready for this? I'm Dr. Amanda Heslegrave. I'm a principal research fellow at University College London. I run the Biomarker Factory at the Dementia Research Institute where we use cutting-edge technology to enable and push research forward into fluid-based biomarker research for dementias and neurodegenerative diseases. I've got two guests joining me today with their different areas but deeply connected areas of research. I have Dr. Jay Amin. He's a clinical academic from the University of Southampton. He works on the front line, I guess you'd say, of Alzheimer's and dementia research and diagnosis. I also have with me Dr. Mark Roskey, who's senior vice president at Quanterix, a company that has pioneered for a number of years now the ultra-sensitive biomarker technologies that are used in both clinical and research use.

So, welcome to both of you. It's really good to see you today. And perhaps, having introduced you, I should also let you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your current work and how you are connected to blood-based biomarkers. So, if we could start with Jay, please?

Dr Jay Amin:

Thank you, Amanda, for the introduction. I work in dementia research down at the University of Southampton. And my primary interest is in the role of inflammation and immune-based biomarkers for dementia. I'm also very much interested in blood-based biomarkers, looking around diagnosis and prognostication in dementia, and that's where my academic interest is as well. I also lead a tertiary memory clinic service where I see people in memory clinics in the UK and assess people for a diagnosis of dementia in clinic.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Thanks very much, Jay. And then move on to Mark.

Mark Roskey:

Thanks Amanda. Yeah, I'm Mark Roskey. I work at Quanterix working on the development of technology for the ultra-sensitive detection of protein biomarkers in blood, and I've been doing that for about 10 or 15 years. At Quanterix we developed a technology called Simoa, that can detect proteins in biofluids with typically like 1,000 times more sensitivity than a standard immunoassay. We've been particularly interested in applying this type of technology to the detection of neurodegeneration biomarkers, because those are typically found in the blood at only vanishingly small concentrations, so they typically require extra sensitivity. And we've really been excited to work in this field over the last six or seven years working with Amanda and other colleagues globally in neurodegeneration to work on current biomarkers and future biomarkers. So, I'm pleased to join this podcast.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Okay, so thank you both very much for that. To get everybody on the same page, I guess what would be a good idea is if we could all think about for a moment the landscape of blood-based biomarker research at the moment. I know in recent years it's moved so fast that it's possibly quite hard to keep up. But let's see what our perspectives on it are. So, Jay, would you like to give us your thoughts?

Dr Jay Amin:

Yeah, of course. I think you're right. I think the research field in this area has just moved at such a pace in the last few years. In our clinical research trials now in the UK and across the world we're routinely using blood-based biomarkers to help with the confirmation of diagnosis of dementia and subtypes of dementia in our trial settings. I think in the UK we're still a little bit further away from implementing that in clinical practise, but I think in terms of the landscape of dementia research and the use of blood-based biomarkers, I think huge progress is being made. And we're now not far off a stage where blood-based biomarkers can be seen as near equals to cerebrospinal fluid biomarkers.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Absolutely. Mark, a perspective?

Mark Roskey:

Yeah, no, I was going to say something very similar. It's been really interesting to be in this field and watch the identification of markers that could be detected in CSF, but reproducibly now detecting them in blood. And starting off purely on the research side with biomarkers for general degeneration like neurofilament light, for example. That was one of the first successful blood-based biomarkers that was starting to tell you something, but now the evolution of a generic all-degeneration biomarker to specific biomarkers informing on critical biological pathways such as a tau pathway, for example, in AD, maybe alpha-synuclein in Parkinson's or whatever. And we see that moving from research and then being used in clinical trials. And I do think that's been super exciting over the last three or four years as clinical trials have progressed, particularly some AD drugs coming to market along with these biomarkers, which are helping set up the clinical trials and potentially using the clinical trials information and the biomarkers as such potentially in diagnostics in the future.

I think that kind of sets the stage as to where the biomarkers are. I like to say that they're in this translational space from the research use to hopefully Jay will be using them on patients very soon.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Just picking up on something that Jay said, you are actually able to order a p-Tau217 clinical test and now only very recently has that been made available. And I believe that the usage of blood-based biomarkers as a diagnostic in the UK at least is going to take some time to bed in, to have confidence in it. And I guess at the moment we're seeing how people are using that to help with their diagnostics. I mean, obviously a diagnosis needs more than a fluid-based biomarker. You can never just use that. But it's exciting that actually that translation is happening from the research lab to the clinical lab at the moment. So, thank you. So, Mark, what do you think the biggest developments from the industry side in the last 12 months are, and what really excites you at the moment?

Mark Roskey:

Yeah, I think you touched on one of the biomarkers that is one of the most exciting things in the industry. First of all, in the industry itself, as we just discussed, the development of new therapeutics that are being approved, they're improved in the U.S. and slowly being approved in the rest of the world, such as Leqembi and donanemab, along with the biomarkers that are informed. And as you mentioned, one of the key biomarkers that's been identified that seems to track with early amyloid and tau tango formation is this phospho-tau217. And so, that's one of the most exciting things, I think. Three years ago, that was just an early research tool. It got developed by Quanterix and other companies and is starting to become a standard tool which can be used, well, is used in this clinical trial development phase.

And I think it's pretty exciting to watch that move to the next stage as those assets become more robust, more standardised. As you mentioned, Amanda, we need more data that correlates back to amyloid PET, tau PET and other measures of cognitive impairment. So, that work is continuing and it's really exciting. And I kind of see us having the opportunity to move to the next phase as well. I know we were at ADPD a few weeks ago, and we see not only just phospho-tau217 being able to detect early stages of amyloid or tau tangle formation. But now other related biomarkers that are correlating specifically with cognitive impairment, the MTBR type biomarkers of the world. I think it's a very exciting time for the space. I think that these types of biomarkers are really enabling the therapeutics to make it to the market. And hopefully we'll ensure that the therapeutics, we continue to develop better and better therapeutics as we go forward here as we understand more about the biology.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Okay, thank you. Jay, I guess that this must be a hot topic amongst clinical colleagues, the use of the blood biomarkers, what's being said?

Dr Jay Amin:

It's absolutely a hot topic in terms of discussions with clinical research colleagues across memory clinic services. I think there's still a bit of a way to go in the UK at least in terms of discussions with clinicians working in memory clinic services who aren't involved in research. I think there's a general awareness that these blood biomarkers are being validated in research settings, that they are starting to become available, but I think there's some hesitancy in terms of being able to access them, understanding what tests to request, what the results might mean. I think there's quite a bit of education to do around that area, but there's some excitement in the clinical research field, definitely. And I think you both said this, I think it has the potential to really make a difference in the diagnostic pathway for our patients.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Thank you. Now, there seems to be a discussion point for me here, talking about how our lab sits. Our lab is a research lab very much. We do not do clinical work. We don't give diagnoses out. And so, looking at where we sit at the moment, I think, I mean, a marker such as p-Tau217, we measure many hundreds, even thousands of samples for this. And now that work is being taken into clinic, moved towards a clinic, or taken into the clinic, I think where we're sitting at the moment is new innovations to perhaps use different ways of measuring these markers, such as, for example, finger pricks. So, we go from maximally invasive CSF, minimally invasive blood, Venus’s blood to probably hardly invasive at all, a finger prick. And so, a lot of our work at the moment is trying to work out the best methods to do this and proving that we can do this.

I think that a number of projects in Europe on this at the showing quite good results. But I think everything's moved so fast to this point that we're just starting to see that we can implement blood-based biomarkers. So, we need to really, really prove that we can then make it even that one step better doing something like just a finger prick. I think that's where we are now trying to bring on the next wave of changes in this area. So yeah, so that's us, but obviously, with the blood-based biomarkers being implemented, there are still challenges. And so, I'll ask Jay first, what do you think are the key technological and scientific hurdles that we need to overcome to be able to move this implementation?

Dr Jay Amin:

I think there are a few hurdles potentially around memory clinic services in the UK, but just before I go onto that, I wondered if I could ask you a question, Amanda, about something you've just said. You're obviously working in a very large, well-established biomarker factory in London in the UK. Some of the discussions I've had with colleagues, clinical colleagues are actually how we can access those services in terms of blood tests for Alzheimer's disease in particular outside of London. And how we can potentially utilise laboratories across the National Health Service in the UK. I know there are some research studies at the moment that are potentially making available some technology in other areas of the UK, but I just wonder what your thoughts are actually, Amanda, just on that shift from having just a small number of research-specific units using technology to assess these blood biomarker levels to actually spreading that out over the rest of the UK potentially and beyond?

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Personally, how I see this is I think that there should be a number of specific laboratories within the healthcare service set up to ... Because when we actually get a drug that is approved by NICE, it is NICE, isn't it? That has to approve it before the NHS can actually use a drug. I think the demand is going to be so much greater to be tested than there is now. Because at the moment there still isn't the great rush to get a ... Well, people want to be diagnosed, but there still isn't, unless you're very rich, a way of getting access to any drugs. Which are still only available to a very few people with a very specific time of diagnosis, et cetera. But that will change, I believe that will change, and there will be a desire and a need to get diagnosed quickly. And then we will need expert laboratories, who will run whatever test it is that we choose and whatever technology is. But I think that that needs to be some sort of effort to make sure that those things can happen.

Dr Jay Amin:

Thank you. That ties in with the point I was about to make, actually, which is about that. I think you're right. I think that the demand for an earlier diagnosis is going to be really important here, and because of these newer drugs being available to people with prodromal Alzheimer's disease or mild cognitive impairment due to Alzheimer's disease, at the moment in the UK we're not, I think generally we're not particularly good at accurately diagnosing people with mild cognitive impairment and exploring the subtypes. I think there's quite a bit of work to do in the healthcare system in the UK at least to expand the capacity for us to potentially diagnose dementia and Alzheimer's in particular at an earlier stage in the disease course.

And I think blood-based biomarkers are really key there, because quite often some changes on brain imaging may not be apparent at that stage. And I think that the blood tests have a potentially key role there. A couple of other hurdles that might be there. One is related to availability of local blood tests and transport to those centres. I think you've already said that it would be great to have a system or a network across the United Kingdom.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

And blood fingerprints. Easily accessible ways to do that.

Dr Jay Amin:

And I guess that could potentially open the door for self-testing and people potentially posting off their own samples, rather than having to go into a clinical setting and utilise resources for phlebotomy and other people to transport.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

That might be a game changer for trials as well, not having to go to appointments, because that's a big barrier to people joining trials, which having your blood test at home done yourself. Sorry, I'm taking over here. I need to ask Mark what he thinks if he's going to weigh in on this.

Mark Roskey:

No, no, you are spot on. I think having the ability to test from a dry blood spot doing a finger prick is going to be game changing. I think from a test developer perspective, some of the other little hurdles are that we worry about are that there are commutability standards so that the tests run the same by different people in different labs and different machines, so we need to work on that pretty hard. Adding additional biomarkers beyond p-Tau217, we touched on that, ways to increase your confidence that you're detecting the exact specific biology and segmenting comorbidities. I think that's an important next challenge. And then also making sure that we understand the pattern of biomarker quantitation throughout different ethnicities and globally so that we really understand how these biomarkers inform in every situation. I think those are some of the key technical hurdles that we worry about from an assay developer perspective, test developer perspective.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

And I think you've just gone on to one of the points I was going to ask you, so that's great, because you've covered it now. And one of the things that actually I think about a lot, even though I'm not a clinician, is the ethics of diagnosis, and specifically early diagnosis. I think, how do we ensure that these tests are used in an ethical manner? Jay, do you want to?

Dr Jay Amin:

Yeah, of course. I think it's a critical area that needs consideration, I know in the UK there are a couple of large blood biomarker trials that are starting up and have started that have strong PPIE or people ... Involving people with dementia and mild cognitive impairment and their carers and really exploring their expectations, their concerns, their thoughts on the factors that would dictate the implementation of these blood biomarkers. And I think some of the concerns are around data and how that's stored, how that's used, how that's shared.

Some of that concern from what I've heard is around what happens after the blood test result is issued, and whether the clinicians that are interpreting the blood test actually have the confidence to use that in an assessment pathway. And I think at the moment there are some hurdles in enhancing clinicians' knowledge about what a positive test means, what a negative test means, what the intermediary stage might mean in terms of the confidence to make a diagnosis. And I think there are some concerns around educating both clinicians making the diagnosis, but also people receiving the diagnosis and their understanding of what the results of those tests mean.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree. I also think personally the early diagnosis, which is what we need for all neurodegenerative diseases. There's a difficulty in Alzheimer's disease in that people can live to an incredibly old age with amyloid in their brain. And so, there needs to be ... Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things I think that actually is quite controversial at the moment. The American and the European way of one says you've got early Alzheimer's, and the other says, "Is it at risk?" Which I prefer at risk, I've got to be honest, because I feel saddling someone maybe in America, they do that so that the insurance companies could not have to pay or something like that, I don't know. But sorry, I mean I'm not having to go-

Mark Roskey:

No, no, I think you're onto something there, for sure.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Yeah.

Mark Roskey:

And do you think orthogonal testing helps? Should we be working on developing digital biomarker technologies to correlate and ...

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

I mean, you mean for the kind of earliest cognitive signs.

Mark Roskey:

Yeah.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

I mean, there needs to be something more than amyloid, I think. At the moment we would not, definitely not advise. I mean, I know that the monoclonals are being given in this country, but I am assuming that the people that go there, they must have a diagnosis of cognitive impairment before they were sent on that journey. And if we could improve cognitive tests so that they could pick up the most subtle signs that go along with a positive amyloid test so we have that confidence that this will be the diagnosis. We are doing the right thing by treating this person now. So, yeah, yeah. But then you've got the whole other thing of lifestyle change and stuff like that. I mean, very good control of blood pressure in midlife, things like this can make a massive difference to your risk or to what you go on to develop. So yeah, actually lots to talk about there, isn't there?

Mark Roskey:

Sure.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

I'm going to move on.

Dr Jay Amin:

A whole new podcast, I think, Amanda.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

I know.

Dr Jay Amin:

The risk factors for adventure.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

I just not want to veer off too far. Okay. Okay, and this is a good discussion point actually, given the roles sitting in front of me here. What role does collaboration between academia, clinical service and industry play in accelerating progress? I mean, I guess I can just kick off and say that one of the reasons I think that our lab is pretty successful and good at what it does is because we collaborate with our industry partners to make sure that we're, I guess getting the best out of each other. And that's how I've always seen it. And actually, it makes it very enjoyable to know that you are going to know when the next cutting-edge thing's going to come through and you can play with it in the lab. So yeah, that for me is important. Jay, we've worked together, so obviously you've worked with us. I don't know if you've worked with Mark before.

Dr Jay Amin:

I haven't, no. But I think that can change after today. I think collaboration is absolutely key. I think we all come at the target or the goal of improving the diagnosis of people with dementia and particularly Alzheimer's in this case with the current blood biomarkers available. I think we all come at it from different angles, and then actually, learning from each other about the challenges that we all have and learning from Mark and his colleagues about the technical challenges of actually making sure that these tests are consistent across different laboratories is important for me to know. Because I can't just go ahead and start pushing ahead with changing clinical services locally if we haven't actually got some of those technical aspects actually nailed down. So, I think collaboration is absolutely key.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Mark?

Mark Roskey:

Yeah, I mean, it's just absolutely critical for us. We know how to develop good sensitive assays and tests, and we've learned from people like UCL and Jay and Gothenburg and the Mayo Clinic what the applications really are, and then the challenges in the application. And that collaboration allows us to create a test that has some level of value, and it's being part of all those collaborations globally that helps us advance the field. It's also participating with the various different groups that runs studies to show the value of either a biomarker or the therapeutics of the Alzheimer's Disease Foundation and Bio-Hermes study, various different global studies critical to helping us advance the current biomarker and develop new biomarkers which may be more informative in the future. So, we really treasure the partnerships. And Amanda, I know you and I have worked very closely, and hopefully we can continue that. And Jay, I'd love to get engaged with you and see how we can move forward there, but that's how the field can progress.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

One of the things about our lab is that we actually wouldn't exist without collaborators. We would have lots of lovely machines, but nothing to do. So, people like Jay actually collecting cohorts and wanting to be involved in the research is absolutely crucial to us. And so, if there's anyone listening actually who's thinking about starting a cohort, getting a study together, we can advise on things like your best collection techniques and storage and what you would actually need for whatever measurement that you want to do. We can advise on that, so there you go. Might be starting a career or something.

Mark Roskey:

There you go. Absolutely.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

That'd be great. Yeah. Okay. And actually, that puts me onto my next point. What advice would you give early career researchers who are looking to get into this space? And we've got three different perspectives, I think here. Jay, from the clinical side, what do you advise?

Dr Jay Amin:

I think for any early career listeners, I think it's important that if you are interested in getting involved in this space, is to reach out and contact people who are already undertaking some of these research studies or industry links or academic links like yourself, Amanda at University College London. I think there's a huge amount of work going on, particularly in the UK, but I know around the world in this field at the moment. So, it won't be that hard for you to find someone near to you who's actually involved in this research area. I think contacting somebody, telling them how you might be able to help them potentially and get involved in the studies. And I think that's probably the best first step I can advise on any early career researcher. You're putting your name out there and contacting relevant parties that are near to you that will hopefully support you getting involved more in the space.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Okay, thank you. And Mark?

Mark Roskey:

Yeah, I think from a research perspective for early career folks, it's just an amazing time, because as we've demonstrated, when we focus on a particular biomarker like p-Tau217 and we can show that's impact in the development of Alzheimer's disease therapeutics, in all of neurodegeneration there's so many other biomarkers that can help develop the next level of drugs. And as we know for ALS and Parkinson's and others, there are no current therapeutics, and there's going to be a need for a lot of new biomarkers. So, the space, if I was younger, I think I would just really dig in and work in some of these other fields to identify some key biomarkers that could be used to advance the field. And that opportunity just is pretty exciting, I think. You can make a big impact. Neuroinflammation in general, we know that's a biologically important component of all this, but how specifically do we track that? And so just seems like there's so much more that we could do there.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

So, my advice, I guess, well, look at UCL job pages, because I have technician jobs go all the time, and there might be one coming out in the 29th of the month, there might be. But also, if you get a chance to go to any of the conferences, and for early career researchers often it's much, much cheaper to go. There is such a lot of content and there are such a lot of people working in the field speaking at the moment of blood biomarkers. And so, it wouldn't go badly to speak to some of those people at these conferences. It can be a bit of an experience. And this is the thing I say, going to conferences in the beginning is really, really scary. And these people might be your heroes if you are a bit nerdy. And I am, so some of them are my heroes when I go, don't tell them though. But go and speak to someone from their lab if you're too frightened to talk to them. I think that that's a really good way to get into it.

But also, going back to what Jay was saying, I think if you are in clinical research and you're an ECR and you can work with someone who's getting together a cohort, that is such a good way to get into biomarkers, because if you've got the samples, then you are king, really. So, that's what I would say. And also, collaborate with me, I think that's a good idea. Yeah. Okay, so what do we think is going to happen in the next 12 months or so? Any predictions, Jay? Starting that way.

Dr Jay Amin:

Yeah, I'm not sure actually. In the next 12 months, I think there needs to be a lot more work on educating. I've said this a couple of times already, educating clinicians and the public on blood biomarkers. It's lovely to see in the UK at least that blood-based biomarkers for dementia diagnosis are receiving more attention in the media. And I think that will hopefully feed into more discussions in clinical settings between clinicians and patients. I still think we're a little bit of a way off routine use of blood-based biomarkers in memory clinic settings in the UK on a widespread level, but it would be great to actually start the ball rolling. And in the next 12 months, certainly where I work down on the south coast in the UK, actually start using these markers in clinical practise. And I think once they start to be used, clinicians around us will want to know more, and patients will start to increase demand for having those tests as well.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

And Mark, what's Quanterix got planned for the next 12 months, say?

Mark Roskey:

We're trying to force that translation to clinical pathways. So, in the States, for example, we're running some phospho-Tau 217 assays that have additional biomarkers as an LDT, a lab-developed test. So, that starts to move it in the clinical direction. Of course, it works a little bit differently in Europe and the UK, but I see that clinical adoption we're right at that tipping point. And as we work as test developers to help clinicians understand and educate, I think that's the next big thing. And then, it really is some additional biomarkers track other things, like I mentioned, neuroinflammation, disease progression once you're on some of these therapeutics. I think there's going to be some other specific biomarkers for that that start to be implemented as these drugs roll out. And then just some new biomarkers that help other fields besides AD as well, so.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Yeah, I think the tau biomarkers that are being published on at the moment are looking super exciting, but as yet not that accessible.

Mark Roskey:

Correct.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

And that hopefully companies like yours, Mark, will help us to bring those tests to a wider audience than one specialised lab in the U.S.

Mark Roskey:

Right, right.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

That's key. And I'm thinking also, in the next 12 months, if we haven't got a protocol in the lab nailed down for finger prick blood testing, I'll be upset.

Mark Roskey:

That's a big one. I think we need to collectively drive that.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, we're working on that, so hopefully that will be something that we can get done. What else in the field? Yeah, and I think, yeah, you're right about other neurodegenerative diseases. I know that the READ-OUT, it is the READ-OUT study, are concentrating on a wider range of disease than the ADAPT study, which is focusing on looking at p-Tau217. I think that's a really nice kind of partnership of projects there. And so, hopefully we will have at least some signs of different signatures of disease that could help push forward the diagnosis of Parkinson's, say, or LBD or FTD.

Dr Jay Amin:

Can I just emphasise that point, Amanda? I think the next 12 months actually in the UK at least are really exciting, because there are these two huge multicentre blood-based biomarker studies for dementia. You've mentioned ADAPT, I think it's ADAPT-AD and READ-OUT. So, there'll be thousands of people across the UK taking part in these studies that are validating some of these tests for either Alzheimer's disease or all causes of dementia. I think it's a hugely exciting time and there's opportunity for members of the public, for researchers to get involved in all of those research sites. And there will be dozens and dozens of research sites across the UK taking part in those two studies looking at blood biomarkers.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Yeah, I remember when the READ-OUT study announced on a web page that they were taking in volunteers, there are people emailing me. We're involved in a way in that study, but actually not running it. And so, I got many, many emails asking how to get involved in this. And it was so nice to have that page, to send them the web link and say, "Here you go, sign up. That's it." People are so invested, and normally because their relatives have been diagnosed with a certain neurodegenerative disease. And I sometimes think that we don't appreciate enough how much people want to be involved in research. And if we had a much better trial infrastructure in this country, we would get so many more people on trials. And I think we need to think about that as well. That's something that needs to improve in this country, and hopefully in the next 12 months innovations and projects going on will help that to happen.

So yeah, I think that we've covered quite a large area today. We've talked about the barriers we need to overcome. We've talked about what we're excited about. We've talked about what might happen in the next 12 months, ethics. How it's different from the clinic and the lab and the research laboratory. I kind of think that perhaps we've come to an end now. And I just really want to thank my guest, Jay Amin, and Mark Roskey for being super informative guests and very generous with their time. So, don't forget to visit the episode notes on the Dementia Researcher website, and then you can learn more about us if you really want to. But our work, you might want to know about that and get some more resources on blood biomarkers. There are actually a number of podcasts, I think on there now about blood-based biomarkers, and it's a good area to learn more about. I'm Doctor Amanda Heslegrave, and you've been listening to the Dementia Researcher Podcast.

Mark Roskey:

Thanks, Amanda.

Dr Jay Amin:

Thank you. Bye.

Dr Amanda Heslegrave:

Thank you.

Mark Roskey:

Bye, Jay.

Dr Jay Amin:

Bye.

Voice Over:

The Dementia Researcher Podcast, talking careers, research, conference highlights, and so much more.