Podcast – Studying for an MSc in Dementia & Neuroscience

Voice Over:

Welcome to the NIHR Dementia Researcher Podcast brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk. In association with Alzheimer’s Research UK and Alzheimer’s Society, supporting early career dementia researchers across the world.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Hello and welcome to yet another episode of the Dementia Researcher Podcast. I’m Dr. Prerana Sabnis, and I’m so excited to be here to host this show for the first time. One of the aims of Dementia Researcher is to encourage people to consider a career in dementia research, both inside and outside academia. To deliver our Dementia Research Careers Festival as part of National Careers Week, we’re working with our amazing Alzheimer’s Society, Alzheimer’s Research UK, Race Against Dementia, Dementias Platform UK, and the Dementia Research Institute. We have a whole range of activities planned for this week with live webinars, career blogs, Q&A sessions, and a whole bunch of other activities. We’re hoping these activities will allow you to see how there really are opportunities for everyone, and how dementia really does need more people like you to become involved. For more information, visit dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk/careers.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

In today’s show, I’m joined by three dementia MSc students from University College London. Hello, and welcome to Aiko Robert, Vaiva Zarombaite, and finally Morgan Daniel, who I am sure many of you already know from her monthly blogs on our website. We’ll discuss their career paths, what they’re getting from this course, and sharing what it could be like for you should you follow this path. Completing an embassy can prepare you for further study at a PhD level, but for someone who’s not from a dementia background, it could also help you acquire the advanced subject knowledge and it could help everyone try their hand at getting extended independent research during their dissertation. So let’s get started by getting to know our panelists. Vaiva, can you tell us a bit about yourself?

Vaiva Zarombaite:

Hello. My name is Vaiva. I did my undergraduate degree in Psychology, also at UCL. I was born in Lithuania, but I moved here when I was very young. So I consider myself a Londoner. And I think that’s about it.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Okay, wonderful. Morgan, do you want to go next?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, I’m from Loch Lomond and I moved to London this year to study at UCL. I grew up sort of just outside of Glasgow and went to the University of Glasgow to study psychology and neuroscience. And then obviously I’ve ended up here doing the dementia MSc.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Okay, and Aiko.

Aiko Robert:

Hi, I’m French and Japanese. I grew up in France and I moved to UK about four years ago. I did my undergrads in Neuroscience at King’s College London. And I’m now with Vaiva and Morgan at UCL.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Wonderful. So how did you all get into it? What inspired you to do an MSc? Aiko, let’s start with you.

Aiko Robert:

I started doing neuroscience and I didn’t really know which area of neuroscience I was interested in. And then I randomly just started volunteering at St. Thomas’ Hospital in London, in the ageing wards. And that’s when I started getting a taste of what dementia was like. And then my classes started getting more interesting, the ones on dementia, and I decided why not just keep going with it.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Okay. What about Morgan and Vaiva? Did you guys have similar reasons or did you have different reasons?

Morgan Daniel:

I was interested in neuroscience, even from when I was in school. We did biology and that was my favorite part, biology. And I kind of always had an interest in Alzheimer’s specifically, but then I went to university and I also did psychology and neuroscience, and both of those courses had quite a lot of, kind of modules and classes on dementia and neurodegenerative disease. And I just realized that that was kind of the topic that I enjoyed the most. I had the most interest in it, but I also might have a lot of family history of dementia as well. So I think that’s what kind of sparked my interest from a young age. And then it just continued with what I was studying.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

And Vaiva, what about you?

Vaiva Zarombaite:

During my undergrad, we didn’t really get to do much on neurodegenerative diseases, but we did have a lot of memory modules, or I willingly chose memory modules. And they’d only give us kind of a flavor of dementia or neurodegeneration. And I found that to be something really interesting. So to find a program that then had neuroscience and dementia combined, that’s kind of what made me pick this.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

So it sounds like at least, Aiko and Morgan, you had some experience with dementia directly, and Vaiva you have been more interested in the memory part of it. So what factors did you consider when you were choosing this MSc or when you chose to do a Master’s, apart from the experience that you had, what were the other factors that sort of went through your mind in deciding?

Morgan Daniel:

So I had looked at a few different Master’s. I applied to a few different courses, some of them psychology-based, and then one was kind of neuropsychology, and then obviously this Master’s at UCL. This was always my top choice. I identified it when I was in my first or my second year of my undergrad as the course I wanted to do. I just kind of thought it might be out of reach because of London being so expensive.

Morgan Daniel:

But I looked, but when I was actually making my choice of where to apply, a lot of it was about checking for the actual modules on the course, and to make sure it was kind of content that I actually wanted to learn about. Then I spent quite a of time going through the actual kind of module catalog at UCL and making sure it was type of content that I was interested in. And then I suppose also a big part of the decision was the reputation that UCL have for neuroscience. It’s world renown, it’s Queen Square, it was so iconic. And I think the opportunity to study there was a big factor in why I chose this course.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

And Aiko and Vaiva, did you have similar reasons for choosing to do a Master’s at this point, or did you have any other factors that you consider?

Vaiva Zarombaite:

I think the reputation of UCL was a huge thing for me because undergrad, their psychology program is very well renowned. And then Queen Square is kind of the hub of dementia in the world. And they have the researchers that are pioneering knowledge in dementia. So to be taught by people that are at the forefront of the field was a huge factor in picking it.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Absolutely.

Aiko Robert:

Yeah, it’s about the same for me. I didn’t really apply anywhere else but UCL. I applied to another one of their programs at Queen Square as well, but definitely the prestige around UCL, like the leading research and also, I really wanted to stay in London.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

That’s a good reason. Yeah. Geography is so important. You don’t really think about that too much sometimes. So can you kind of talk us through the application process of the MSc program at UCL? How did you get about to applying, what happened there on, the costs, any tips for anyone applying for a Master’s this year? Aiko, let’s start with you.

Aiko Robert:

The application process will differ from university to university, and sometimes there are slight differences within programs as well. But for the MSc in dementia anyway, you have to write a personal statement, which I think is about one Word page, and basically stating why you want to do dementia, why you want to study it, why UCL, what makes you the perfect candidate? It’s pretty similar to your undergrads UCAS application. And then you have to provide two references I believe, and an academic transcripts from your undergrad.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

And the references that you have, are they generally both supposed to be academic references from your undergrad? Or if you have prior experience in dementia, like you did Aiko, can one of your referees also be from your previous workplace?

Aiko Robert:

Yeah. So I think the UCL guidelines are that at least one of our references are from an academic background. So I had one of my professors at King’s write my first reference, and then the second one was from my manager at St. Thomas’. So, I think that’s definitely a good thing to do if you can, provide two different viewpoints.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

And Morgan you’re from Scotland, right? So were there any differences in the application process that you saw, weighing UCL and your previous experience at Glasgow?

Morgan Daniel:

The actual application process, I suppose, because in the UK when you first apply to university for undergrads, you apply through UCAS, and then it is a little bit strange going from that, which is a general kind of form, to individual applications. But yeah, there was one major difference for me is that the Scottish government will only give me a loan for a Master’s degree if I can’t do the course in Scotland. So I have to prove that I can’t do the course in Scotland. So I had to make sure that UCL, the degree fit those requirements that I couldn’t get it anywhere in Scotland and that it was unique. So it was just, for me, it was that extra layer of just double-checking that I could actually get the loan to do the course. But other than that, there wasn’t any major differences, I think in the applications. The actual application process was quite similar to the ones I applied for in Scotland. But yeah, it was just that kind of added layer of uncertainty at first, but it ended up being fine, obviously.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Yeah. So I guess that’s something to keep in mind, just kind of crosscheck with the local regulations as well to make sure you meet the criteria. And I guess if we have any listeners from overseas, maybe also have a look at maybe the English language requirements and the grading requirements that might differ from your home country to the UK. So, Vaiva, obviously this year has been very different, but can you tell us a bit about the course and what it covers and how that experience has been different this year?

Vaiva Zarombaite:

So the core modules cover both practical and clinical neuroscience of dementia. So you get a look at the biology and the underlying neurodegenerative processes, and now we’re doing a module that’s much more practical looking at how you can diagnose dementia in people using clinical interviews, imaging, there’s a lot on biomarkers cause that’s a huge field right now. You also have to do statistics, which I think a lot of people don’t tend to like, but statistics is not too bad. I think that’s the one thing that people need to be wary of if you’re not too confident in, but it’s not as scary as it’s made out to be. And then we also get to do optional modules. So different people are doing very different things. I think Morgan is doing an imaging module, which is very different to, I’m doing neuroscience of mental health. So the imaging module’s arguably scarier, but the main difference has been having to do it all from home.

Vaiva Zarombaite:

So for me at university, having my friends was kind of the safety net. If you didn’t understand something at lecture, you could immediately turn to someone and be like, “Do you know what’s happening?” and they’d be like, “No”, and it’d be comforting. Whereas now you don’t really get to have that experience. But I think instead our course has done a very good job of making group chats, coming together. We tried to arrange Zoom meetings for revision sessions and whatnot. So we’ve tried to replace the in-person experience online and I think we done quite well.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Aiko, you mentioned that you applied for more than one program at UCL. So could you maybe tell me a little bit about, could you tell us a bit about how these courses differ and why you went for the one you went for?

Aiko Robert:

So the other program I applied to was the Dual Master’s in Brain and Mind Sciences. It’s a two year Master’s with the first year at UCL on the second year in France, in Paris, and it’s more selective. I actually didn’t get an offer for that program. So that’s why I’m doing the MSc in dementia, but there is a lot of overlap. So, the way in which the dual Master’s differed from the dementia MSc is that you get to choose most of your modules, basically. But my plan was initially to choose a lot of the dementia modules, the modules I’m actually doing now. So there’s not that big of a difference apart from the fact that it’s two years and you do one year in London and one year in Paris.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

All right. The international element I’m sure, might be an interesting experience for a lot of people. What about you, Morgan? Do you have any idea how the course you’re doing differs from something maybe your peers are doing? Dementia-related or with a background in psychology or from the neuroscience perspective?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, I do have a lot of friends who chose to go on to do Master’s this year or to go straight into PhD. And I think our Master’s degree, I think the way that they’ve decided to teach it online, they’ve got a very good method of teaching. I think I’ve heard other universities have maybe struggled to get all of their content online and to know how to deliver the lectures. I think our course seems to have quite a good method of teaching. And there was also, in first semester, we had the options to go to journal clubs which were in-person as well, which was great. I know that myself and Aiko went to quite a few of them and they were really useful. We got to meet other people, got to meet some of the PhD students. This was obviously before Tier 4, but that was really helpful to have that in place.

Morgan Daniel:

But I think in terms of the actual course and how it was different, it’s so specific to what I want to study, but at the same time you can choose modules that also fit in with other areas of neuroscience. So for example, the neuroscience of mental health module is very useful for somebody who’s maybe got that interests in mental health and wants to study alongside dementia, or for myself fiscal, kind of sciences imaging module, that’s really a sort of, it can be applied in the future. So I think it’s the course content being so tailored to your interests, but also having the opportunity to learn outside of that as well.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

So would you say that is something important to consider when you’re applying to a Master’s, to ensure that the modules that are available to you cater to exactly what you would like to do in the future?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, I think so. I think you have to be interested in what you’re studying and I also think it makes it so much easier to study when it’s something that you’re interested in. It doesn’t necessarily feel like a chore to sit and study something that you’re really passionate about. So I think that is really important, but also just in terms of what you want to do in the future, you want to make sure that you’ve got the option to study the modules that might help you get into, say a PhD, or if you wanted to study something that gives you the practical experience that you need, or the background that you need, I think is really important to make sure that you choose your course for the right reasons and you get the right kind of content from it that you were hoping for.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Absolutely, all great points. Vaiva, what advice would you give to anyone who’s thinking of doing an MSc?

Vaiva Zarombaite:

I think in terms of the application for a Master’s, what helped me the most is that, at least in the UK, I think most universities have a careers advice department. So during the application process, I was really unconfident with my CV. I hated everything about my personal statement. So I arranged a series of meetings with different careers advisors because they kind of know how to tailor a CV and a personal statement specifically to what you want to apply, and they point you towards the right directions. So I remember the woman that I saw, she gave me a booklet that I still use to this day of keywords to use in applications and CVs. And I think that was definitely what pushed me into getting the place on this Master’s program, by tailoring it to both myself as a person, but then also to fit the needs of the Master’s program itself. I think that would be the biggest piece of advice if you feel in trouble, there are places to get assistance with these things.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

And Aiko, what about you? What would you say to someone thinking of starting an MSc?

Aiko Robert:

So definitely the personal statement, I think is probably the most important component. You can have an amazing personal statement and if your grades are not so good, you can still make an impression, so that’s your opportunity to shine. Get a lot of people to read your personal statement, get a lot of insight. I think that’s the most important thing, definitely.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

And Morgan, do you have anything to add to that?

Morgan Daniel:

Yeah, I think one of the sort of things that I was almost scared to do at first, but I just went for it and it’s something that was really valuable, was to actually get in contact with the course before I even applied. So I was a bit eager and I got in contact with them about two years before I applied, because I knew it was what I wanted to do. But I think getting in contact with them, I kind of asked, “What backgrounds do people usually have before they start this degree? What was useful experience, work experience, kind of research experience? And what’s the content of the course like?” just to make sure that it was exactly what I wanted to do. But I also asked about scholarship opportunities, funding opportunities, kind of general information about UCL. So if you are looking at a Master’s, I think it is a good idea to get in touch with the staff because, that run the course, because it’s also a good opportunity to kind of get to know them and see how you would fit in and how you would work with them.

Morgan Daniel:

But other than that, I think another piece of advice is a Master’s can be quite expensive. So you really need to weigh up whether or not it’s going to give you what you want out of it at the end. I think this Master’s that we’re doing is well worth it. But if you are in a situation where you’re debating whether or not you can afford it, or if you can afford it but you’re weighing up whether or not it’s worth it, you really need to look into what you can get out of it, as opposed to maybe working instead or going straight into PhD. It’s kind of what you want to get out of the experience. But it’s worth considering the cost of doing a Master’s.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

That’s at the application stage, but some of our listeners might have already gotten their places for an MSc. So what tips do you have for them on how to survive? Is there anything you would do differently? What would you do exactly the same? How would you go about doing this MSc? Vaiva, do you want to go?

Vaiva Zarombaite:

I think one piece of advice I actually hated during undergrad, and I think most students can agree with this, is about being told to be proactive. So starting your assignments when they’re set and getting everything done before deadlines, but I’ve been trying to do a little bit of that during my Master’s. So I don’t complete my assignments the second they’re set, but I do chunks like readings or trying to do exam notes. And that’s really helpful because I used to get to the end point of a module and suddenly I had a week or so to do this massive essay or revise for an exam and I’d get so stressed, but now there’s still chunks left during that week to do, but it feels more calm. It feels more peaceful. I feel like I can take in the knowledge and actually benefit instead of just seeing it as something that I have to do just to get a grade or an exam. So I think try and be proactive in your own ways to get these things done.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Morgan, what about you?

Morgan Daniel:

I think a Master’s is only a year long, so try your best to enjoy it as you’re doing that. It can be quite easy to kind of get lost in the fact that you’re studying all the time and it is quite hard work, but I think just try to enjoy it, especially if you’re considering coming to Queen Square, because although we were online this year, it’s such an iconic place to study and it is really important to try and make the most of it.

Morgan Daniel:

But I think one of the piece of advice I was given before I started, and it has been quite helpful, I haven’t always stuck to it but has been quite helpful, was to try and treat it like a nine-to-five. So even if you have lectures that are in the middle of the day, if you start your working day up at nine o’clock and you finish it about five, it kind of gives you enough time to get most of your work done. And it means that you don’t sit at your desk all evening or all night on top of that. And naturally, being at university that doesn’t always work, but it is a good kind of thing to try and do from the start of the year.

Morgan Daniel:

But other than, as well on top of that, I think keeping up with lecture notes as much as you can at the time. I know that I tried to keep up with them each week to make sure that I don’t really have too much to go back to that at the end of the module before an exam. And that kind of saves me a lot of time and actually it takes a lot of the stress out of it. If you just tried to do all the pre-readings and kind of keep up with the actual lecture notes as you go along, because there is a lot of work in a Master’s, so it is worth just trying to do what you can at the start rather than leaving all to the last minute.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

And Aiko, do you have anything to add to that?

Aiko Robert:

Yeah, I definitely agree with what Vaiva and Morgan said. One last thing is, I think, get in touch with the researchers and university, get in touch with your professors. I feel like now that we’re Master’s student, they give you a little bit more credits and ask questions. Don’t hesitate to reach out, get onboard with extra projects if you have time for it. Professors are actually interested in your input and are really happy to help you.

Morgan Daniel:

Sorry, I’ve just got something to add to that that I just thought of-

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Yeah, go on.

Morgan Daniel:

[inaudible 00:22:23] I was just also, it’s a really good idea to kind of identify, and you will learn through lectures what kind of researchers you feel like you would get along with or whose work you’re interested in, but it’s a really good idea at the start of the year to start looking for supervisors for your dissertation. I actually found mine really early and quite quickly, and it’s been really good to get as much work done as I can in the first semester and then coming into second semester so I don’t have as much to worry about in summer, but also gives you a really good opportunity to kind of build up a relationship with different supervisors to maybe join a lab. That kind of thing. So I would just say, maybe think about your dissertation from quite an early stage because it takes quite a lot of the stress out of starting the second semester as well.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Okay. So you’ve all been in this Master’s for a while now. Can you tell us a little bit about what you think you will be doing next? Just any ideas that you might have, who wants to go first? I’ll leave the door open. Okay. Morgan.

Morgan Daniel:

So I actually applied for the first time this year in November for the Doctorate in Clinical Psychology. I had kind of been debating it for years at Uni and I have an interest in research, but I also have the clinical interest and I wanted to choose one or the other, but I realized it’s very much possible to do both. So I’ve applied for the doctorate. It does usually take quite a few applications to get in, quite a few years. So I can imagine this will be the first year of many applications, but I thought it was worth kind of chucking my name in there and seeing what happens, even if I get interview experience, that’d be great. And then after that, I’m hoping to, once I’ve completed the doctorate, do the sort of post doctorate qualification in neuropsychology and go into that field. But I would quite like to maintain a career in dementia research alongside that as well.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

That sounds great. Good luck with the applications. I’m sure you’ll go far with it. Vaiva, what about you?

Vaiva Zarombaite:

I’m kind of on the same pathway as Morgan, just a little bit delayed. So I’ve been sending out applications to multiple universities for research assistant positions to give myself more patient-facing experience. So just today I sent off an application for a dementia study, actually. So hopefully that works out, and after a year or two of building up additional experience, I want to apply for a clinical doctorate as well. Because as much as I enjoy research, I do also have the desire to have more patient-facing and clinical experience as well. So I think kind of a similar route, but just a little bit delayed.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

Okay. Good luck with all the [Deeklin 00:25:02] site applications that you have going. And Aiko, finally, what about you? What are your plans?

Aiko Robert:

I decided that I didn’t really want to be in a clinic. I think my experience at St Thomas’ have taught me that I’m a bit too emotional to be with patients, but I definitely want to stay in the dementia research fields. So I’m currently applying for a couple PhDs in London and also in other countries in Europe. So in a wet lab and I’d really like to stay an academic research, that will really be the dream.

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

That sounds amazing. Well, I wish all of you all the best with all these wonderful plans you have, but I think we’re running out of time for today. So just quickly to summarize, the takeaway would be for anyone considering applying for a Master’s, do your research and ensure the program that you’re looking at basically caters to whatever your future plans are, make sure all the modules you want are available. On the practical side of it, obviously look at the kind of funding opportunities the universities have to offer and any other sort of research-specific information that you might need or resources that you might need. Journal clubs, I don’t know, EEG machines depending on what your interest is, and at your Master’s just be proactive, start early, be involved, get all the help you need. And most of all, just enjoy it. Right?

Dr Prerana Sabnis:

All right. I think with that, we’ll have to wrap up today’s session. Thank you so much for your time, Moran Daniel, Vaiva Zarombaite, and Aiko Robert. For everyone listening, take a look at our website dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk/careers. We have a lot of resources for you out there. You’ll find an article I wrote on how people from different fields can bring together their talents to dementia research. You’ll also find details of all the MSc courses available, and you’ll also find a series of blogs from Morgan and a whole bunch of others about their work. This week we also have a whole bunch of other live webinars. We have researchers from different fields discussing their careers and so much more. So just come along and see how we can help you. We’ll have profiles of all of today’s panelists on the websites, including the details of their Twitter accounts. If you have anything to add to this topic, please do drop us a tweet using the #ECRDementia and #NCW2021. Or just leave comment to this post. Thank you for listening. Bye.

Voice Over:

Brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk. In association with Alzheimer’s Research UK and Alzheimer’s Society, supporting early career dementia researchers across the world.

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