Podcasts

Podcast – ISFTD 2022 Conference Highlights

Hosted by Dr Anna Volkmer

Reading Time: 22 minutes

In this podcast we bring you highlights from the International Society for Frontotemporal Dementias (ISFD) Conference, which was held in Lille, France from the 2nd – 5th November 2022.

Regular Guest Host Dr Anna Volkmer talks with Dr Chris Hardy, Jess Jiang and Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft all from University College London discussing their work, and what they’re taking away from this year’s conference.

The International Society for Frontotemporal Dementias is a non-profit scientific society focused on frontotemporal dementias. Members include the leaders in FTD research around the world, and the society is associated with a large, international biannual meeting presenting the latest findings.

For more information visit:

isftd.org


Click here to read a full transcript of this podcast

Voice Over:

Welcome to the NIHR Dementia Researcher podcast, brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk, in association with Alzheimer’s Research UK and Alzheimer’s Society. Supporting early career dementia researchers across the world.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Hello, everybody. I’m Dr. Anna Volkmer, and today I’m hosting this special podcast recording roundup after the 2022 International Society for Frontotemporal Dementia Conference in Lille, otherwise known as the ISFTD Conference. We will be discussing some of our own presentations, and what we’ve all seen and heard that has also interested us.

Many of you will know me. I’m a speech and language therapist and NIHR Advanced fellow based at UCL, as well as a frequent podcast host and blogger at NIHR Dementia. I’m sure you’re getting fed up with me by now, but what you may not know is that I’m privileged to be a guest member of the UCL Dementia Research Center Brain Behavior Group, or the BBG, which is Professor Jason’s Warren’s lab group. And today I’ve been joined by three other members of that group, Dr. Chris Hardy, Jess Jiang, and first timer to NIHR Dementia, Dr. Jochum Van’t Hooft. Hello, everybody.

Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft:

Hello.

Dr Chris Hardy:

Hi, Anna.

Jess Jiang:

Hi.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Hi. So, can we start with a quick round of introductions? And perhaps if you can all explain who you are, and a little bit about your work, that would be great. So, shall we start with Jochum?

Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft:

Yes, thank you. So, my name is Jochum Van’t Hooft. I am a PhD candidate doing my PhD at the Alzheimer’s Center Amsterdam. And my research is focused on musicality and dementia. And I’m now currently at the DRC for a six-month international fellowship with Professor Jason Warren. Very happy to be here. Thank you.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Exciting. Thank you, Jochum. Chris, do you want to introduce yourself, though, I think you’ll be known to many of our listeners?

Dr Chris Hardy:

Oh, I’m not sure about that. But morning, everybody. I’m Chris Hardy. I’m a senior researcher in Jason’s group. I’ve been at the Dementia Research Center for a decade now, which is terrifyingly long. I’m a psychologist by background. My research involves understanding more about the symptomatology of the primary progressive aphasias, which are a rare group of language-led dementias, and also in developing tests of complex hearing tests of auditory cognition for PPA, and for Alzheimer’s disease as well. And yeah, pleasure to be here.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Brilliant, thanks Chris. And Jess?

Jess Jiang:

Hi everyone, I’m Jess. I’m a current PhD student in Jason’s lab. I’m supervised by both Jason and Chris, actually. So, my research revolves a lot around the complex auditory perception that Chris just spoke about. My PhD’s focused on exactly that, complex auditory perception, both in speech and maybe editing a bit into music, into Jochum’s territory. That’s actually my current PhD work, and I study that in AD, Alzheimer’s disease, and frontotemporal dementia as well.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Great, thank you Jess. Before I ask you about your own talks and posters and other people, perhaps I could get your thoughts on the host city, which was Lille. Chris, I know you particularly enjoyed are ridiculously early morning run around the Citadel.

Dr Chris Hardy:

No, I didn’t.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

I did.

Dr Chris Hardy:

No, it was pitch black. We had to go there because the conference starts early. We had to get up at, I think we wake up at five Lille time, which is four UK time or so. I don’t know what’s going on. But we had a miserable run in the pitch black. Didn’t see a single site because you couldn’t see a foot in front of you. I’ve never met more of a morning person than you, Anna. I couldn’t believe the stream of chat you managed to keep up for our hour run.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Later in the day you said to me something like, “I knew you were a chatty person in the day. I didn’t know you were a chatty person all day.” But yeah. Yeah, right. What did the rest of you think about the town, Lille?

Jess Jiang:

I loved it. It was so nice. Yeah. Wasn’t expecting it. It was like an hour and a half to get to via the US Star, so it was super quick. And just walking around town, you really wanted to shop and things like that. And yeah, it was really, really nice. Unexpected. I’ve never heard much about Lille before, and going there, I had a misconception that I thought Euro Disney was close by but it’s not. So, it was all I knew about Lille, I thought Euro Disney was nearby that.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

No, not at all. I’m not even sure where Euro Disney is, but yeah, no, good point. But now Jess, while you are here, while you are chatting with us, you were one of the stars of the conference with your awesome platform presentation.

Jess Jiang:

I wouldn’t say that.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Oh yeah, come on. I want you to tell us about it. Blow by blow account, including your practice walk up the steps the day before. How did the presentation go, and how can people find out about your work online?

Jess Jiang:

Well, thank you Anna. Yeah, I was so grateful for ISFTD for being willing to take me on as one of the 10-minute presentations to the neuropsychology session. It was fantastic to speak in such an auditorium as well, and explain about the work, because we all work within hearing and complex hearing, but it’s not really usually a topic that’s spoken about. So, it’s really nice to have that chance to talk about it.

My talk was on my PhD work, which is degraded speech reception in Alzheimer’s disease and primary progressive aphasias. And I used an artificial manipulation called noise recoding, which removes spectral details and intelligibility from the speech while preserving temporal cues. So, it’s kind of intelligible at certain amounts. The joke is, it kind of sounds like Batman the lower you go, I don’t know. But it’s really interesting and really good manipulation to relate towards real world hearing functions, like a busy telephone line or a video conferencing call, kind of like what we’re doing on this podcast at the moment.

And using that manipulation, I was able to parse out the different diagnostic groups. So, the group that performed the worst was the phylogenic variants, followed by the non-fluent variants, as well as the Alzheimer’s disease. And surprisingly, semantic variants as well, which showcases a deficit there in speech reception also, in semantic variant groups, even though past [inaudible 00:07:40] speech paradigms haven’t really necessarily shown that. But I think that speaks to the noise encoding manipulations that we use there. So yeah, overall, it was really nice to present all the work. And people can definitely look out for the work in future, because hopefully we’ll get a paper published about it soon. So that’d be really, really nice.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Watch this space, in other words.

Jess Jiang:

Watch this space. Yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

I will definitely be watching the space. And I’ve talked about it with you before because I think the clinical implications are so useful, because people often say to us, “Oh, I think my partner can’t hear me,” or they say, “I can’t hear things in noisy environments,” or “I find certain accents more difficult.” And we found that hard to rationalize for people in the past, or even think about what that means. But actually, the work you are doing will help us feedback to people, that’s part of the disease process, and think of strategies to help people manage that in real life. [inaudible 00:08:45].

Jess Jiang:

Absolutely. Yeah, that’d be so good. So, if you have this research out that basically says that yes, it is hard, not even just for the PPAs, the actual language bit, but actually that it’s an auditory processing difficulty that they also have, it kind of builds into the general difficulties that they could have. So environmental strategy, clinical strategies, to try to help manage that would be great. Yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Yeah. Brilliant. Now Chris, Jochum and I, we all had posters presentations, we didn’t get to go up on the big, huge stage like Jess, but we did have poster presentations. So Jochum, do you want to tell us a bit about your poster? Because I guess in my mind as a simple speech therapist, it aligns quite well with what Jess does. Is that fair?

Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft:

It is probably under researched in dementia, as is auditory cognition in general. And music as an extension of that as a complex auditory stimulant is, of course, part of this. So, I guess this aligns with this lab, I would say. So, what I looked into and what I presented on my poster was looking into musicality. And musicality is a broad term of all the skills involved in understanding music, but also musical behavior.

And I looked specifically for this in BVFTD compared to Alzheimer’s disease and healthy controls. And the idea for this is that we have ideas that musicality, and why we listen to music is related to other cognitive functions, especially social functions. And FTD is the disorder where well social cognition or social functions are typically impaired. However, we don’t have a gold standard for measuring this. And because of the relationship between musicality and social cognition, music might help us in investigating these impairments.

So, what we did in this study, we investigated musicality with various tests, such as music emotion recognition, melody recognition, but also rhythm and tempo recognition. And we investigated certain aspect of social cognition, such as visual emotion recognition, understanding of social norms, or understanding of indirect speech. And then we investigated if they were indeed related to each other.

And what we found was that indeed patients with FTD scored lower on the musicality tasks compared to Alzheimer’s patients and controls, and that they were related to social cognition functions, which is very exciting. It filled our hypothesis that we had, and it gives us an insight into how music might potentially help in investigating more social cognitive functions.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Absolutely. It reminds me of a test called The Awareness of Social Inferencing Test. Have you ever heard of that, Jochum? It’s an Australian test, and they’re these video recordings of people, and they’re being surprised or anxious or happy, and they never say they are, but they obviously use the tone of their voice, and their nonverbal communication. And I have done that test with a couple of people with fronto temporal dementia, particularly with people with semantic variant PPA, and they always fail it. And it just makes so much sense because that’s all about tone and pitch and inflection, isn’t it?

Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft:

Yeah, I think that’s a very interesting observation indeed, because this requires what we call a theory of mind, that you understand that someone else has a different mind from your own, and that you can infer that mind based on cues that you would get from speech or from facial expressions. And if you think about it, the melody, and the rhythm of someone’s speech is very important into inferring these cues. So musical features or skills are definitely important for these understanding of social cues, yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

So interesting. And again, I think lots of value. I’m just thinking of a client, a family I spoke with recently, who couldn’t understand why their relative was less empathic. And I spent a lot of time talking about tone and pitch, as well as that theory of mind stuff with them. And I think that’s really helpful for people. And therapies as well, will be exciting.

But let’s move on. Let’s talk about Chris’s poster. Chris, can you tell us a bit about yours, please?

Dr Chris Hardy:

Yeah, sure. I was presenting some work that we’ve been doing with carers of people with PPA, and this is work that we’ve been trying to do for a number of years now, so it’s exciting to see it coming to fruition. And I should say this is in collaboration with Cathy Taylor-Rubin in Australia as well, who I think has been on this podcast before as a guest.

But yeah, we’ve been trying to learn from caregivers of people with PPA about the course of symptoms that people with the different variants of PPA, the progressive phases experience over the course of their disease. And we’ve tried to define six symptom-led stages for each main subtype of PPA, in the hope that this will be helpful, not only for clinicians and researchers, but also for people living with the disease themselves, and also their family members and partners and carers, as they come to prepare for what comes next and can predict which major care milestones might be emerging next.

So, it was exciting to share our progress on that work to date. And yeah, I’m not as optimistic about the time scale for getting a paper out as I know Jess is with hers, with good reason. But hopefully that won’t be too much longer before that sees the light of day.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

That’s great, thank you Chris. And I should say, that aligns really well with some of the work I’ve been doing. I had a poster with Chris, where we ran some focus groups with people with PPA and their family members. We actually had a student run them, and they asked them, the people with PPA and their family members, what they would like from speech therapy. And we collected some really amazing data that we analyzed using thematic analysis, and basically drew out lots of themes, including the fact that lots of these people don’t know what speech therapists do.

So, it’s really hard for them to even understand what they should be asking for and when, which really interlinks really nicely with what Chris is saying about the more we understand about the disease journey to staging, the more we can work out what a care pathway might look like, so that people can ask for the right things at the right times.

But yeah, I feel like we’ve been speaking about our own research for a little while. I wonder whether we should talk about what other people were doing at the conference. So, I wondered what each of your highlights were. I feel like I can anticipate what Jess’s highlight was, because it was a lady that presented just before you, I’m anticipating that it might have been one of your highlights. And then we met her in the break. It was it? Yeah.

Jess Jiang:

No, yeah. What we’re speaking about is the presentation done by Dr. [inaudible 00:17:32]. She presented at the last IFTD, which was virtual. I forgot how the premise of it was. It was one of those separate video sessions that you can tune into, and it was fascinating because it was on the people who speak Chinese or Cantonese or basically Mandarin, and how PPA manifest in their language, which I always thought was really interesting, as someone who’s a native Mandarin speaker, I always thought the criteria for PPA is very catered towards an English speaking population, or generally maybe more European, I can’t speak to, maybe Jochum, you can correct me on how Dutch plays into this.

But I was just thinking that it was so interesting two years ago to hear about her work on trying to develop a battery, as well as appropriate criteria for those who speak a total language such as Chinese, both in Mandarin and Cantonese form. So, it was great that this time she expanded even further and shared her new results, and also on tone perception, not just how they were speaking, but also their tone perception as well, which also links into when we were talking about pitch and the importance of that when it comes to communication on all facets. So that was really cool. Yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Yeah. It was a really good talk, wasn’t it? She had some really amazing audio clips as well to really illustrate the tonal difference and show how people couldn’t understand those differences in tone, but also couldn’t use them. And unsurprisingly I felt, I was less surprised when she’d explained that people with non-fluent variant PPA can’t use tone. TI didn’t, that makes complete sense because of their motor speech disorder. But I guess I was perhaps more surprised about that comprehension side, that they weren’t following understanding the tonal differences.

Jess Jiang:

And we spoke after her talk because we were back-to-back from each other. She showed that semantic variants struggled, especially, with tone perception. And she was like, “Oh, it’s really interesting that you also showed that they have difficulty listening to degraded speech perception. It’s interesting that semantic variants showing this profile on this aspect.” And I was thinking it is particularly interesting because they do seem to fall a bit on emotional prosody as well. So that would be some place to explore maybe.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And we were kind of saying that maybe we should be assessing tone and tonal perception at a much earlier stage. What about the rest of you? Did anybody else want to share any of their highlights? Jochum, what was your major highlight?

Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft:

I wanted to highlight from presentations that were in Paris as well. And one was by Masud Husain, where he talked about apathy and motivation, which was very interesting, where he took the approach of, how can brain disorders teach us about how our brain works? So, he talked about very strategic brain infarcts for example, and how the people couldn’t be bothered and were very apathetic. And what I liked is that it teaches so much as well, how our brain works.

And the same goes for two other speakers that were in Paris, which were Emmanuelle Volle and Leonardo de Souza. And they talked about creativity, where they investigated creativity in BVFTD. And the same goes for this. What I love is, because of course, you and I also are motivated, we have creativity. So, these disorders can teach us so much about how we behave and how our brain functions. So, this was, I thought, very interesting. Yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

I’m sad we missed that. We didn’t make it to Paris. We should explain to the listeners that they had a pre-event in Paris the day before. A kind of seminar event, and then the three main days of the conference were in Lille. So, it was a little bit tricky to navigate that geographically to make it to both. So, we were a bit sad to miss that day, but thank you for sharing that, Jochum, that’s really helpful. Chris, did you want to flag anything that you thought was really interesting?

Dr Chris Hardy:

I agree with Jochum and Jess, the really interesting things they’ve spoken about. For me, I think that one of the themes at the conference was really about the diagnostic labels and categories and criteria that we’re using, and lots of talk about different developments in that space. So, we had presentations about right temporal variant, front temporal dementia, about semantic behavioral front temporal dementia.

And then within progressive non-fluent aphasia, the non-fluent agrammatic variant of PPA, I think there was a talk by Ignacia [inaudible 00:23:27] and a poster by Diego [inaudible 00:23:30] from the same group at UCSF, from Mary Lou [inaudible 00:23:34] group. And they’re talking about, you’ve got this constellation of non-fluent agrammatic PPA recognized as a subtype, in which people either have [inaudible 00:23:46] speech, maybe a [inaudible 00:23:48] speech, but also can have agrammatism, and difficulties using grammar. And there’s lots to talk about whether or not to lump these potentially different clinical profiles together under one umbrella term, or to split them out as unique entities.

And their conclusion was that actually we should be lumping them together, but perhaps the terminology that we’re using at the moment isn’t correct. And because apraxic speech is not an aphasia in its purest form. So, they were suggesting that perhaps we should use the term progressive non-fluent speech language disorders, which I found interesting.

I also found interesting, their brain imaging work, which suggested at least four different anatomical profiles for this across this spectrum, including quite a posterior profile around left temporal prior to junction, which mirrors what we certainly see in some of our patients that take part in our research. And perhaps you might expect that is that group who have that more posterior atrophy, who have those cardinal problems with some of the basic auditory perception that Jess was talking about. So yeah, that was something I found really interesting. But it was a really good conference, I really enjoyed it, and there’s so much going on that we won’t be able to do justice here.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

No, I’m really glad you flagged that poster. I’m sad I missed it, because you and I have spoken about terminology quite a lot before, because it really foxes some of the clinicians out in the field. I get phone calls from speech and language therapists looking for advice and saying, “Well, they’re apraxic, they’re not aphasic, so surely they’re not a progressive aphasic.” So, I think that idea of encompassing both including speech and language in that, that cognitively make sense to me, at least. Yeah, interesting.

And I’m sure would make sense to lots of our clients because I think terminology just confuses them so much. Did anybody see the opening talk by Marcel Messilen? We should mention him. For those listeners you don’t know, he’s Professor Marcel Melin. He’s from Northwestern University in Chicago. And he did the opening keynote speech, really. And he had a great title to his speech. It was called, Menage Twa temporal poll, wor word Comprehension and TDPC. But I missed it. Did any of you see it?

Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft:

Yes. It was very interesting, and of course very nice to see him talk. He is an absolute legend within the field. And he chose a very, very interesting title as well. And he talked about the history of semantic dementia, which of course on its own is a very interesting disorder, which can present with such focal brain damage of the temporal pole with typical protein misfolding, and about the history and how it was recognized, because in the beginning, dementia was more seen as maybe a memory impairment disorder, but as more knowledge was obtained, it was found that in this disorder, something other very specific was impaired the semantic knowledge, which presents with word comprehension deficits but also other symptoms. So, he talked about that, and was very, very interesting indeed. Yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

I’m sad I missed it. He is a good speaker, isn’t he? But I can’t help but talk about Dr. Maya Henry. I facilitated some networking here for Jess and Chris with Dr. Maya Henry. She’s a speech and language therapy researcher from the University of Austin, Texas. And she was one of the only speech and language therapy, the therapeutic researchers, who did a talk on the big stage. And hers was about immediate and long-term benefits of restitutive treatment for speech and language in PPA.

I’m a little bit biased, of course, as a speech and language therapist, but I found this talk really engaging. She talked about the fact, essentially, that certain types of interventions like script training and what lexical retrieval therapies are demonstrating positive changes for people living with different PPAs. And she also flagged that we need to be looking more functionally, looking at things like communication partner training. So obviously this is an area, I say obviously because you all know this, but I’m particularly interested in this kind of work. What did you think of her talk?

Dr Chris Hardy:

I thought it was amazing. I’ve seen her talk before in Sydney, I think, four years ago. But yeah, no, I love her work. I think she’s an amazing, amazing clinician, amazing scientist. And I think her work is so important in proving that for the patients that we see with progressive language disorders, that that’s not it. There is evidence-based help that can work for people. And the evidence that she and Emily Rogowski, who also spoke in her session, and others at our centers around the world are producing, I think, is just so encouraging. But yeah, no, I really enjoyed Maya Henry’s talk. Yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

It’s funny, there was a Belgian neurologist who afterwards said to me, “I haven’t really thought that speech therapy could help. But after seeing Maya talk, I’m going to start trying to find those speech therapists.” So, as you say, Chris, it’s really important that those talks are on the big stage. Did anyone go to the carers conference? I think Jess, you did. There were some quite moving firsthand accounts there, weren’t there?

Jess Jiang:

Yeah, I went, but unfortunately, I think I went only to the first one to obviously catch, Anna, your talk, as well as Caroline [inaudible 00:30:21] talk from the Dementia Research Center as well. And it was great. Yolanda also gave a talk, and I’m forgetting at the moment the other person, but the first session is what I went to. And it was really, really cool, actually, to see a carer session that way. And they had three or four languages on the go as well. You had to get a headset to get onsite translations, which I thought was really good, and made it really quite accessible if your first language wasn’t English, for example, for the carers meeting.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Or French.

Jess Jiang:

I’m sorry, missed the other…

Dr Anna Volkmer:

No, no. I got asked a question in French, and I didn’t have the headset on. Were you there when that happened?

Jess Jiang:

Yeah.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

And I didn’t know what they were saying. And the question went on and on and on, and I was nodding along like an aphasic person, and reacting to the tone, and then they translated it. But it took a while. But no, it was an amazing setup. It was a parallel session to the main conference, and you missed then, there was a really great talk actually at the end, by someone called Fiona Cumfor. I think that’s how you say her name. Do you know her? She’s got a psychology background. Neuropsychology, she’s a researcher in Sydney.

She presented on criminality and risk behaviors in fronto temporal dementia. And they were looking at the different types of frontal temporal dementias, and they’d asked carers to check off behaviors that they’d seen in their relatives. So, whether they had had parking tickets, or whether they shouted or were verbally aggressive, or were physically aggressive, or anything more.

And what they found was that the number of carers who reported aggression was significantly high anonymously, in this survey they did, was significantly higher than what they knew of in the clinical setting. And they asked people, and people said they just didn’t tell anybody. So, there were lots and lots of carers essentially receiving domestic abuse from their relatives with the diagnosis but hadn’t actually informed anyone.

So, they were saying we need to be more careful about how we manage that in clinic, and more mindful, and we should actually make space for questions to make sure that we are asking people and their family members if they’re experiencing that behavior. They were talking about behavioral variant FTD primarily, but they also saw, I think, if I remember correctly, there was some of that also within the semantic group as well. But obviously it was primarily the behavioral variant.

But I thought it was just really quite moving, because I was quite shocked at how many people said they’d never told anybody about that aggression that they’d received. So that’s a good lesson, really. Now is there anything else we haven’t mentioned that anyone has a burning desire to mention? I think there was so much.

Dr Chris Hardy:

I was just going to say just from the perspective of the early career research side. I’m one of Jess’s supervisors, privileged to be one of Jesse’s supervisors. And I’ve never been so vicariously nervous for somebody as watching Jess go up on that stage, because it was huge auditorium. I don’t know I’ve ever seen one that big. And had absolutely no reason to be nervous because Jess is an incredible speaker, I knew she would do well.

Jess Jiang:

Other than me telling you right before the [inaudible 00:34:06].

Dr Chris Hardy:

But I don’t think I’ve ever been as proud as somebody as seeing that. And so that was just really interesting as somebody who’s working their way, stumbling their way, through the post-ops rule levels, and then to be fortunate enough to now supervise somebody. And it was a really amazing experience to watch somebody who I work with smashing it. That I just did say, wanted to mention that.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Hear, hear. You did [inaudible 00:34:38].

Jess Jiang:

You’re too kind.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Yeah. Now I think this might be all we have time for today I’m afraid. So just to check in with everybody, is it okay if listeners contact you if they’ve got any questions or want to talk about your work? Everybody’s nodding. We will put links to everybody’s Twitter feeds on the website. But I have one more question, you can vote with just a yay or nay, will you all be going to the next ISFTT conference in 2024, in Amsterdam? Will you all be going, yes, or no?

Dr Chris Hardy:

Yeah, Jochum’s going to host us, I think.

Dr Jochum Van’t Hooft:

Home game. Yeah, I’ll host all of you. Definitely.

Dr Anna Volkmer:

Amazing. Brilliant. And do you think there’ll be any new themes? I’m wondering whether their whole thing about terminology will continue as a big theme. Yeah. So, it’s probably about time to end today’s podcast recording. I’d like to thank our panelists, Chris, Jess and Jochum. You can find information about all of us on the Dementia Researcher website. And in the meantime, please remember to like and subscribe, and leave a review on this podcast from SoundCloud or iTunes. Thank you all very much. Until next time, bye now.

Jess Jiang:

Bye.

Dr Chris Hardy:

Bye. Cheers.

Voice Over:

Brought to you by dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk, in association with Alzheimer’s Research UK and Alzheimer’s Society. Supporting early career dementia researchers across the world.

END


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